When I started this layout I knew very little about Hornby Dublo (HD) and nothing at all about railways. I lived in SE England which was dominated by electric Multiple Units (EMUs) with the only steam engines being the Victoria to Oxted line behind a BR standard 4MT and the Golden Arrow headed by a Bulleid Pacific. There must have been other steam available but I didn’t take any notice.
So when the first layout was built I did not realise that there were large radius curves as well as standard ones so I built three running tracks which left big gaps between the curves. This was not a problem as I filled them with sidings. (More track, More trains… remember)
Then I added a turntable and more sidings to the LHS of the running lines. It stayed like this for a long time as I slowly built up the running stock. Then came the day when we had run out of track to keep all the engines and their trains so an extension was built at right angles to the right hand side.
This was used as a carriage siding with some sidings for their engines at the top. This was a good layout. Engines could take different trains of carriages or freight wagons and all had direct access to the two outside lines via interconnecting points. It lasted until yet again I ran out of track to house the growing collection. Yes they could have been stored in boxes but where is the fun in that.
So we come to the current layout. When I was building it I wrote a blog on the progress and this is copied below.
I had forgotten how long it took me to get the original layout to run properly. Now everytime I run a new train we have derailment and disconnect problems. The Co-Co won’t run at all probably due to its slightly oversize traction tyres, so they will have to be changed. The Flying Scotsman de-railed its tende
r, the 2-6-4T derailed its bogie, the LMS train coal trucks de-railed and de-coupled etc etc. Points have been changed, new sections of track added, changed, moved etc. Every time there is a new train there is a new problem. I now remember the problems that I had before and they are all reappearing. Its the fact that the track is 50 years old and probably some time in its history has either been trod on or screwed down or both causing it to be less than true. This is 
combined with the fact that the transition from the oval layout to the new sections are at an angle which makes fitting the correct sections very difficult. The problems continue and no end is in sight at the moment. Although the running track has its own problems they pale into insignificance compared to the points. These are the classic derailers and looking at them there seems to be no obvious reason for it. I change them but then forget to isolate th
em from the rest resulting in them being used again – I must get a better system. The problem is that sometimes they work well in a different place on the track so its best not to throw them away.
Three of the large radius curves that came with the job lot I bought in the Summer are the cause of problems. One seems to have a pinch point in the rails which causes the trucks especially to 
wobble and then uncouple – no obvious problem on close inspection but there is one there. Another couple do not fit well and again can lead to bogie wheels jumping off the track. This problem will hopefully be overcome by the purchase of 8 large radius curves from ebay last weekend. These were bought for £12 including postage which again was a great 
price – need to look at the state of the rails before declaring them a bargain. They looked good in the pictures but that can be misleading as every one knows who buys from ebay. Otherwise its the points that continue to be their normal problem but I have enough to change out so slowly we are getting there. The CoBo now runs OK on the down line but refuses to reverse over points to get out of a siding so there is still work to
Today I started screwing down the new running tracks. Even being very careful and running “sensitive” locos after every couple of screw had been put in it still turned into a de-railing nightmare. I think that this old track benefits to some extent by have the flexibility of being loose laid but also has the problem that after many circuits some of the rails especially on the curves begin to part causing their own problems. So its a dilemma. I have decided to screw down the 
running lines but only every other rail or so and leave the sidings loose at the moment. Not sure that this is where I will end up but its a good place to start.
For those of you who have read the comments you will know that Nigel Clark advised me to add a small peice of sponge foam under the front bogie of the 2-6-4T to prevent it de-railing. I did this on 80033 last night and it worked a treat, so I 
followed it with 80054 and today I also added the magic foam to the Wrenn bodied one. Actually this still had a problem when shunting so I might have to modify it a little but it ran well on the main line. In fact you can easily see that the foam stops the bogie from bouncing high enough to derail but does not prevent it from rounding the
curves etc. A little more trial and error is necessary but I think that I am on a winner.
I had forgotten how long it took to get the extension running and the frustrations involved, it was good that I published this blog as I could look back and remember the pain.
Some observations:
- Test every piece of track that you lay down with a “sensitive engine”
- Buy the best points that you can afford – they can be a pain and its very difficult to see what the problem is
- Minimise the use of X crossings, they always produce a problem
– You will need to recheck every piece of track that you screw down as all the problems can re-occur
-If you have a long layout you need to add electrical boosters, wires from the controller to various rails around the layout. My layout has 3 boosters per track.
- The basics are very simple. the final layout can be frought with minor problems
HD layouts will never be free from ghost de-coupling – accept it – otherwise you will go mad trying to eliminate them. Trains that can spend 10 minutes circulating without a 
problem can and will decouple one of their wagons, especially when you are not looking
Carriages are better than freight wagons for not decoupling
- HD engines will perform better on HD track than any conversion however well that it is done
- Enjoy the noise of metal wheels rumbling around the track
- “Genuine” 3 rail layouts do not have scenery and the only buildings should be those produced by Meccano
- HD plastic stations were introduced for 2 rail and the platforms are lower than the metal 3 rail ones.
My layout runs toy trains, it does not have a time table, the signals do not control the trains, they are there for interest, the hand of god works all the time as it is my layout and it is not meant to be authentic,
I do try to run pre-nationalisation trains on all three tracks rather than mix them up with e.g. LMS and BR. Diesels and BR steam are acceptable, short expresses with only 3 -5 carriages instead of 10-12 are inevitable, steam engines wait in sidings with their carriages ready to take the road. I have no electric points so remembering the point settings is important to stop derailments.
All of my trains reverse into sidings and stations ready to set off the next time they are put into service. This is prototypical for goods (freight) trains as otherwise the engine would be trapped at the end of the siding. It is very unusual for passenger trains as at mainline termini another new engine would be attached at the front for the next duty and the incoming engine moved to the engine shed once the train had departed. At smaller junctions the engine would uncouple from the train, be turned if there was an available turntable, and then run round its train and rejoin on the front. If there was no turntable the engine would come in chimney first and leave tender or bunker first. I do not have enough space for run round loops so that option is not viable. The mainline variant is very doable if you isolate the last rail in the station so that the incoming loco loses it power and a new loco could be added at the front. This would require a switch on the isolating rail so that this engine could then be let out of the station. Never tried it but it might well be worth ago.
There were some stations in the country where the train did have to reverse into the station, Dorchester for example, at least until 1970, but not many.
I also always run the twin track in up and down modes. This means that all the the trains on one track work the same way.
Whether you are going to build a classic layout or one with scenery it is important to include as many of the HD buildings as possible. So you will need signal boxes, red roof are the standard and the cheap ones, green roofs cost more money, island platforms, mainline station buildings, metal for 3 rail, in both cases platform extensions are available but they are reasonably rare, level crossing again it has to be the metal one for 3 rail. The standard level crossing is for single track, double track ones were made by specialists and are very handy but difficult to find now. Prewar their were wooden stations and signal boxes pretty rare but replica ones are available. Then you have the girder bridges again in metal and plastic, footbridges, and the poster signs.
Moving into the HD plastic era you have the freight station, the engine shed, plastic 2 rail versions of the island platform, mainline station and level crossing and the piece de resistance the Terminus Station with the all over plastic roof. This is very nice but rare and therefore expensive also you have to design your layout around one although it can be configured as a through station.
This hobby is relaxing, its fun, its not rivet counting, the engines do look like the prototype but they are not scale models. I am not a railway modeller, I am not a serious collector I just like to run tin plate around a track and sit back and enjoy it.
If you are thinking of setting up a new layout or modifying an existing one, you have two options. The first is to collect together all the rails you have and start loose laying them and modifying until you have the basis for the layout and then start actually laying the layout. This is good fun but time consuming. The second is to use a CAD programme and do it all on your computer before even touching a rail. This enables you to try many layouts, count the exact number of rails you want and make as many changes as you want. This method is even more time consuming and also a lot of fun.
CAD for a model railway that is over 50 years old I hear you say but its true.
Download Xtrkcad. Its only 2MB and won’t take up any room on your computer and its free.
Install and open it – you will be confused I guarantee it. Help is at hand. Click on File. Click on Parameters. In Parameters click on Browse. Scroll down until you come to Hornby3r.xtp cilck open. This file now appears in the Parameters click ok. Now go to Options. Click on options then click on layout. Put in room size and name but most importantly click on the drop down menu in scale and click on HO. This is because English OO trains including HD runs on HO scale track. You do not need to change anything else. Click on OK. This is not a simple programme so I advise you to click on Help and then click on Demos and spend a good bit of time going through the demos that they have.
Now you can spend long happy evenings planning your layout and with the wonders of the programme you can even add stations, level crossings, buffer stops, signal boxes and finally when it is all complete you can run a train around it. N.B. there is no turntable.
Then you can build your real layout and listen to the rattle.
David Simmons Advice
This is just excellent advice from David Simmons of use to all 3 rail runners. Fantastic information on points – really useful.
“I’m sorry to hear you are having all these problems. My experience of Dublo track (on and off for almost 60 years) is that it can be very troublesome, but can be beaten. It needs careful laying and only track that has passed rigourous inspection should be used.
A sheet of glass is useful to check that the rails are absolutely flat. Bases with obvious distortion should be either straightened if possible or scrapped. I avoid all track from the Korean war period (card insulators and steel rail are give aways). I also find that mixing wide and narrow tongues can sometimes give problems. The last section of curved rails is often straight, causing doglegs. Careful use of flat nose pliers corrects this – sighting along the rail shows up this one. Duchesses are near their limit on 15″ curves and don’t need any bad joints to worsen matters
Diamond crossings give trouble because the bakelite section in the middle warps (this also happens with uncoupling rails) and there is a bump between this and the metal part File smooth or scrap.
The real problem is, of course, the points, though I have not had particular problems with electric ones (it’s essential to check that the tiny spring underneath holds the point blades firmly over both ways however) . My investigations of these have revealed several problems. Firstly, the gauge through the blades widens to about 18mm. This is why fine scale wheels derail and only wide wheels like Dublo, Lima and later Tri-ang / Tri-ang-Hornby (This stuff is still Tri-ang to me despite usurping the Hornby name!) run through OK. Then, at the other end, the check rails are often bent out of shape and need restoring to their original form, so that the wheels are gently eased into line. Any burrs need removing obviously. Also check that the centre rail is level. Castles, 8Fs and 0-6-2 tanks in particular are prone to the collector shoes getting caught and derailing or shorting and stalling. Again flatness is essential.
I have found that some wheels are out of gauge (the back to back should be 14.2mm). This has to be corrected to avoid problems. A gauge or a vernier/digital caliper is necessary to check.
I’ve waffled on (as usual!) but a last point. To avoid uncoupling, all couplings have to be the same height (I have reserved one wagon with pristine couplings as my standard and all others have to couple and uncouple with this one). The hooks are ideally all the same (original) shape and it is essential that the actual coupling surface is vertical. Level track and attention to these points should mean unwanted uncoupling is rare.
I hope I’ve not stated too much that’s obvious, but I firmly believe in keeping them running rather than decaying away in some collector’s boxes.”
Thank you, David contributions welcome at any time.
Since this post David has sent me a follow up email with some further advice which is very useful and a picture of his now dismantled layout. Another runner, I hope that he gets a new layout soon.
“Hi Tony,
Thanks for your e-mail. Glad to be of assistance and the best of luck with your investigations. I’ve rescued some bad cases in the past., Corrosion and bad wear are the real killers.
The poorer examples can always be used in sidings or the loco depot where speeds are lower anyway. At worst, they can provide spare parts.
I would agree with you about 4MT tank bogies. they’re not quite heavy enough to take the coupling loads, especially with plastic wheels. I was going to try a phosphor bronze spring (like on the West Country), but have never got around to it. I didn’t have much success with the foam. The N2 (I have several of these) has never given bogie problems however. Possibly the axle is bent and the wheels don’t run true?
I’ve attached a photo of my old layout (now dismantled following a move, unfortunately) if you’re interested.
If you need any help don’t hesitate to ask.
Best regards,
David”
Judging by the comments received on the website, I am attracting new people to the hobby rather than those who have been collecting or running for some time. This is hardly surprising as my collection has no Dublo gems and a lot of other makes which probably doesn’t appeal to the collector and for the runners they have all been there and done it before and survived the problems.
So if you are not a member of the HRCA and can’t access their collection of literature and you want to know how to wire an electric point, with or without a signal then this will give you the information
However you need to be aware of the possibility of problems with electric points. I have tried three on my new layout and two were not working. I have more but careful checking is necessary but difficult if you can’t try them electrically.
SCARM
When I updated the links in November 2011 I added a new Track Layout programme called SCARM (Simple Computer Aided Railway Modeller) but confessed that I had not used it.
Now I have given it a go. It is very easy to pick up and produce a potential layout. The
programme has many track systems and you click on the arrow on the left column and there is a dropdown menu, pick Hornby and then you have a choice of 2, 3 rail or the modern track. Click on 3 rail and all of the available three rail track appears in this column. Click the top left hand corner of the scale to change to inches and use the scroll wheel on the main page to change the size of the layout. Use a right click to draw a base board and in this programme it can be an L shape or T shape as well as being rectangular. Draw the size and shape you want instructions are given.
Starting is easy. Click on the red arrow and place it on the board where you want to start. Click on the rail you want and it will appear on the board. The rail on the baseboard now has a grey arrow at one end and a red at the other. Clicking on the next rail adds it to the red end. If you want to change the end click on the grey end and it becomes red and the next rail adds here. Very simple. Curves show left or right, points give 3 choices its all straightforward. When you want to change where you are working click on the grey end of the rail, it turns red and you start again from this position.It even has a 
3D option to help you visualise the layout. The only problem I have encountered is that in the 3D option you can take a 
photo of the layout as a bitmap or jpg. I have done this, the file size states that there is 
something there but I cannot see it – not sure why. So I have made do with screen shots to give some idea of the 3D capability.
The programme does have the Travelling Post Office and signals but no buildings as yet.
I think it works very well and if you are exploring layout possibilities it is certainly the programme to use.
Enjoy producing your next layout, whether you will build it is, of course, another matter.
I have been building up a 3 rail layout over the past 18 months with no prior experience apart from a brief attempt some 45 years ago as a child. I have found this site fascinating and informative, and can only agree totally with what you have written on the page above. I share the same sentiments concerning the running of these trains and the sound they make. I prefer litho even with carriages and was very impressed with your Trian Hornby m7 and it’s Southern coach.(I want one). Well done indeed with your whole site.
Regards Brian.
Thanks Brian, I still have a lot to add but I’m glad that you appreciate it. I would be happy to link to your website when you have one or host some pictures of your layout if you send them to
dublorunneratgmail.com – replace at the at with @. The Southern coach and M7 came from hornbydublo56 on ebay but I haven’t seen another one for sale.
I find it most heartening to read your confessions of mystery derailments and uncouplings. I tried my utmost to eliminate all those HD failures of 50 years ago with my new layout. Substantial improvements by attention to detail on design and construction but from time to time something crops up out of the blue to puzzle me.
The one item I can recommend is industrial 3mm neoprene sheet. I have covered my entire baseboard area with this ( it is 75% track anyway) Apart from levelling and sound deadening the major advantage is that it keeps the track firmly in place without the need for screws and their random effect of track distortion. Sorry to be so evangelical about this but it is very good.
tim
Hello,
Very impressed by your layout. Please could you advise me where to get hold of a 3 rail transformer. Can a 2 rail be modified? There seems to be plenty 3 rail track on ebay but no transformers. Thanks for any help.
> There seems to be plenty 3 rail track on ebay but no transformers.
The problem with Hornby-Dublo transformers are that that the vast majority of them are now over 50 years old. This presents a fairly significant problem in selling them, as “working” items, because of the serious electrical safety implications. At the very least there is a very great risk that the insulation on any original mains power cables will have gone “brittle” and that in itself is a significant electrical safety risk.
In most cases, the transformer unit itself is fine, but will need a new power cable and electrical tests for isolation/earth faults conducted by appropriately licenced/authorised person. The cost of this varies a lot but, is often a significant obstacle unless you very specifically want a Hornby-Dublo controller.
Any model train controller designed for 12V DC trains, with a power rating of *at least* one (1) Amp will be suitable for running Hornby Dublo 3-rail or 2-rail trains, so unless you do really want a Hornby Dublo transformer, you may find it generally easier to buy a contemporary controller, such as from Gaugemaster or similar, rather than using an old one.
As it happens I do have a strong personal interest in having working Hornby Dublo transformers, and being an electronics engineer by profession I have the requisite skills to do my own repair/test work on them. Just about all the Hornby Dublo transformers from 1939 through to 1964 can be repaired to a working state (though for some specific models there is not really much point in trying).
Cheers,
Bill
Thanks for that information Bill, very useful
Transformers – Hi Bill – interested in your comments on transformers (know it was last June but have just started to recomission a 1957 Duchess of Montrose set so looking for any source of knowledge!). Have been using a Hornby R918 rated at 14V but have bought a Marshall 3 from Ebay. It’s rated at 12V DC 9VA as well as having 12V AC and 15V AC outputs. All outputs test OK at no load but the controlled 12V DC shows just 7V on load and a current of 0.6A is drawn when I supply the loco. I also get the red short circuit light on. The loco drives well on the R918 but slowly on the Marshall. Question is do I have a faulty Marshall unit or is there insufficient capacity for a 3 rail system such as this? Would welcome any thoughts. Many thanks. Phil
I have placed here the original comment that Phil is referring to which was from Bill Bolton
The problem with Hornby-Dublo transformers are that that the vast majority of them are now over 50 years old. This presents a fairly significant problem in selling them, as “working” items, because of the serious electrical safety implications. At the very least there is a very great risk that the insulation on any original mains power cables will have gone “brittle” and that in itself is a significant electrical safety risk.
In most cases, the transformer unit itself is fine, but will need a new power cable and electrical tests for isolation/earth faults conducted by appropriately licenced/authorised person. The cost of this varies a lot but, is often a significant obstacle unless you very specifically want a Hornby-Dublo controller.
Any model train controller designed for 12V DC trains, with a power rating of *at least* one (1) Amp will be suitable for running Hornby Dublo 3-rail or 2-rail trains, so unless you do really want a Hornby Dublo transformer, you may find it generally easier to buy a contemporary controller, such as from Gaugemaster or similar, rather than using an old one.
As it happens I do have a strong personal interest in having working Hornby Dublo transformers, and being an electronics engineer by profession I have the requisite skills to do my own repair/test work on them. Just about all the Hornby Dublo transformers from 1939 through to 1964 can be repaired to a working state (though for some specific models there is not really much point in trying).
Cheers,
Bill
hi
can you explain in detail the use of multi power supply on long layouts?
do you wire in 2/3 transformers per track?
many thanks
nick
Nick b,
My layout is as follows:
A small oval, 4 straights, run off an Hornby Dublo A3 with a single power connection.
The two large tracks each have an H & M Clipper Transformer/Controller. The 12V variable output goes into a junction box (simple plastic wire joiners) and from this comes out 5 pairs of wires. These are attached around the layout at about equal distance from the controller either using HD connector rails or soldering one wire to the centre rail and then the other wire to the rest of the rail (that is the base of the rail). Each controller is wired the same. This gives the power boost to the circuit without significant power drop.
Then I have 2 wires from the controller from the 12V fixed output to a HD battery controller and then on to the track allowing me to control shunting in the yard. The main controller must be turned to zero power when using this controller. This controller must also be turned to the midpoint when returning to the main controller. All of this is to ensure that you don’t have a directional conflict between the two controllers.
The other controller has two wires from the 16V AC outlet to an H & M controller (Not a transformer/controller just a controller) this allows 16V AC input and 12 V variable output which is then connected to the circuit. This also allows control of the shunting and also allows me to control the trains at some distance from the main control set up.
If that is confusing please contact me again and I will try and draw a circuit diagram.
Some layouts use block sections each with its own controller/transformer by using isolating rails between each section so that there is no conflicting current problems. This allows multiple trains on the circuit as each block can have its own train. Never tried it as I like roundy roundy operations and a chance to sit back and watch the action whilst sipping a beer or contemplating the state of the world.
Hope that this helps
Really enjoyed your blog, often wondered why after completing many circuits a train uncouples or a boggie jumps on a point. Certainly keeps you from getting bored or dozeing off at the control. Once the rhythm changes you dive for the “off” for everything.
Are you OK if I link your offering to my blog?
Keith
Yes, I was only reflecting on this phantom derailing over the weekend. I keep all my rolling stock in fixed formations which is prototypical for Southern region carriages but hardly that for freight wagons.
My reason for doing this is that I run them and adjust them until they work without derailing or uncoupling and then leave them in that formation. So when I rolled out a 0-6-2T with a rake of LMS coal wagons I didn’t expect any problems as it has been in this formation for at least 2 years.
What happenned – frequent decoupling and also a derail at at least two points on the track. So I moved the trucks around, readjusted the heights of the couplings etc and kept them running until the problems stopped and the train ran smoothly again. I still find it difficult to understand the reason. Cold weather, dampness who knows.
Whats the betting that when I get this train out next time the same thing will happen all over again. It does mean as you say that you have to pay attention at all times otherwise the decoupled truck gets hit hard by the train coming round.
All the fun of HD.
Please feel free to link to your blog.
hi all great web site i have just started building a HD layout in the garage loft and im just at the stage of getting some track dowm this site has been a great help. maybe a dublo forum? just an idea?
Wonderful website – great to have a place for dublo enthusiasts (not necessarily collectors) to have a look at and comment. I’ve got a triple deck, 5 station 3 rail system scenicked (but no dublo buildings apart from one signal box – all modified metcalfe, superquick and similar or homemade). Careful placement and inspection of track and very little problems with backing trains over points, no electrical or tracking issues HOWEVER I do qualify this whereas it’s only the plastic (nylon) wheels that have had any issues. I have had not tracking issues with the sintered iron wheels. I only have loco’s with reasonable gearing – the N2 tanks are okay, the castle and 8f are great, the A4 okay. Running 3 hammants, a variable, resistance, and walkaround, and just run points selection wiring, with common earths – so there’s like about 6 wires to the whole system – DCC eat yer heart out! couplings I’ve found the worst is if the rivets are worn abit, then no amount of careful height alignment works as the coupling are free to move in the vertical plane. I just love the sheer robustness and build quality of the stuff – I got rid of all my modern because of quality issues – I had an N2 which didn’t run – cleaning and more cleaning – found two armature pole wires had come disconnected from the cummulator, so I just soldered them and built up the cummulator as well and let the brushes make a nice even surface. Runs brilliantly now – and it’s an LMS N2 too so at least 60 years old… gosh I waffle on…
muir gives us encouragement to look into and repair the smallest item. Not all of us can do it, but for those brave enough – what have we got to lose?
A recent experience here was an intermittent power loss and poor running ringfield motor in a Castle, this despite a new neo-magnet and my excellent power supply. I took the motor off and bench tested for several minutes and was shocked to observe a red glow inside. I thought I was burning out the commutator or windings and in a process of elimination I found it was neither.
The glow was coming from around the insulated brush, even with no armature installed! I pushed out the brush holder and sleeve (gingerly, hoping to salvage them) and then found two metal shavings crushed into the sleeve, so they were intermittently shorting the brush cylinder against the housing! Never seen this before and after refitting the cleaned sleeve the motor fairly zooms again now, no other damage.
It just proves, give it a go. With magnifying glasses, fine tools and a steady hand I have fixed a lot of things.
Well said Roadrunner – what have we got to lose?. Just to give an indication of my soldering ability – I still don’t really know whether to put the flux paste on the iron or solder or bit that I’m soldering, and for every successful soldered joint that I do, it tends to be about the ninth attempt at the one join. I just take my time, and not get frustrated when it’s the eight attempt and it still isn’t right and realise I have to do it again. Just make sure that the phone doesn’t ring or cousin Daisy doesn’t visit.
…then found two metal shavings crushed into the sleeve, so they… Good discovery – I wonder how many people would’ve just sold it on ebay (probably to me) rather than look at what the problem is, and have a go at fixing it…
Just too add – theres about 3 locos I’ve got from ebay which haven’t needed to have their wheels scraped clean from years of build up. I think that we 3 railers get rather spoilt with great conductivity – but this means that it’s all too easy top miss cleaning the wheels. I’ve noticed that especially near the flange on bogie wheels, that build up can reshape the wheel profile coniderably (we’re talking decreasing the flange depth by around 1 to 1.5mm) which could explain some derailments… I thick the mazac “attracts” dirt and grime. cheers